<pitr-ch>
donV: what versions of graal and trufflerubydo you have?
<donV>
pitr-ch: graalvm-0.19-dk abnd truffelruby from GH
<pitr-ch>
donV: that's not compatible, you need either truffleruby from gralvm and graalvm or truffleruby GH and graal which you build yourself
<donV>
pitr-ch: OK
<pitr-ch>
donV: did you browse our doc directory? It should be documented there. If you are on linux there is even a command for getting and compiling graal
<donV>
on mac…
<donV>
pitr-ch: If I use the graalvm, can I use the `bundler-workarounds` with it?
<pitr-ch>
yeah the file is bundled in truffleruby it's already on LOAD_PATH
<pitr-ch>
donV ^
<donV>
pitr-ch: OK, I think I have it working again with graalvm :)
<donV>
OK, so truffleruby is running with graalvm, but `bundle install` gives me an exception:
<pitr-ch>
unfortunately it does not :/ Could you open an issue for us with instructions how to reproduce? or could you try on truffleruby checkout first ?
<donV>
pitr-ch: OK, thanks. I think I’ll wait, then unless the postgres-pr hackery is manageable. Do you rememeber what needs to be done to get postgres-pr working?
<enebo>
lopex: so you want us to leave irc or you are that guy who uses the gateway? :)
<lopex>
no
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<lopex>
not I
<lopex>
just doing a survey
<lopex>
because I'm a bit confused
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<enebo>
I mean we need hosting and our hosting service is proprietary so I am not against using tools when we need them
<enebo>
The website chat tools I think are partially because people do not like how web irc gateways behave…since gitter and slack have better UI
<lopex>
yeah
<enebo>
I use an irc client so I prefer irc even if it lacks some of the polish of these new tools
<lopex>
and that attracts people
<enebo>
It has been serving me ok since 1990
<lopex>
I guess we'll have a serious problem soon
<enebo>
will we?
<lopex>
yeah
<lopex>
wrt team chats of course
<lopex>
like for jruby
<enebo>
I don’t know. I think most projects just pick one and use it
<lopex>
ppl will expect the community to be on slack for example real soon
<lopex>
enebo: yeah, I agree
<lopex>
enebo: but the starter will assume it
<lopex>
starters
<enebo>
And if you compare traffic we get a lot more on irc…the gitter is pretty quiet…except perhaps for kristian who seems to not like to be connected to irc :)
<lopex>
enebo: I dont have asolution for that
<lopex>
enebo: but I'm worried
<enebo>
lopex: but I feel both slack and gitter and just du jour apps and one or both will not be in business in a few years
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<lopex>
enebo: also gitter / slack dont have RFC's etc
<lopex>
and thatns really bad
<enebo>
lopex: not to belittle their business model … good luck to them… it is just a reality that most businesses fail
<enebo>
github.com going out of business would be horrible but at least nearly all the data can be extracted as git repos
<lopex>
enebo: not theirs I'ma affraid
<enebo>
theirs == ??
<lopex>
enebo: sharing infrastructure is a big saving
<lopex>
enebo: slack/gitter
<enebo>
lopex: so you think they will succeed as businesses?
<lopex>
yeah
<lopex>
even in the long term
<lopex>
just as facebook
<lopex>
same model
<enebo>
lopex: are they VC funded?
<lopex>
what's VC ?
<enebo>
venture capital?
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<lopex>
enebo: how do they differ ?
<lopex>
businesswise
<enebo>
lopex: well companies financed by VC money need to perform to their investors expectations in a way that non-VC companies may not
<enebo>
lopex: gitter is run out of the uk so that is at least a positive they are not in silicon valley
<lopex>
aah
<lopex>
well
<lopex>
enebo: two choices, they're just a bubble
<enebo>
lopex: I wonder how many paying customers they have
<lopex>
enebo: another company has already seen the potentiel
<lopex>
potential
<enebo>
lopex: It might be selling fantastically to businesses for all I know…but I don’t have any idea. I have only seen free uses of it
<lopex>
enebo: like twitter ?
<lopex>
no I dont have any idea too
<enebo>
lopex: well that is a good question right? twitter seems to have no valid monetization potential from what I can see
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<enebo>
lopex: I have joked the US government should guy it as public infrastructure
<enebo>
s/guy/buy
<lopex>
enebo: bubble is a bubble until another comanny see a potential
<enebo>
gitter might be great for businesses though. It seems like it has something sellable like basecamp
<lopex>
doesnt matter if the startup has forseen that
<enebo>
lopex: I guess so. with that logic no little companies would go for it
<lopex>
haha
<lopex>
well
<enebo>
lopex: but it is not like irc or group messaging has been a secret the last 35 years
<lopex>
but irc was different
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<enebo>
lopex: ability to link in and display info via plugins has been around forever too as overlays
<lopex>
actually
<lopex>
I'm really interesed how irc is finances
<lopex>
financed
<lopex>
enebo: but you think my analogies are flawed ?
<enebo>
lopex: like I used an irc backed applet in nineties which allowed pcitures and doodling + texting where the graphical elements were just IRC traffic in a second channel
<enebo>
lopex: no I guess my opinion is some company might start something and another company might destroy it or the original company may just fail to make enough money to survive
<enebo>
lopex: or that company “wins” like github.com
<lopex>
haha
<enebo>
lopex: although if you read any articles on github you will notice they are having financing issues
<lopex>
yes
<enebo>
lopex: but they do dominate the space and they started small
<lopex>
right
<lopex>
well, that 's the question actually
<lopex>
and theystrive
<lopex>
is it the promises ?
<lopex>
facebook will eventually meet the commercial deficit too
<lopex>
and I believe I'ts on the decline now
<lopex>
wrt youth
<lopex>
ppl demand simpler media
<lopex>
like snap etc
<lopex>
one thing is making ppl dependent on some media like drug
<enebo>
lopex: business plans which start with capturing users first and then how to make money second are always iffy
<lopex>
but it vanishes with time
<enebo>
lopex: github did have a concrete plan for monetization and delivered so I don’t know why they ever took VC money
<lopex>
"iffy" is an english something for "if.. like dependant"
<lopex>
from if ?
<enebo>
yeah pretty much…to use more slang…sketchy
<enebo>
shaky
<lopex>
enebo: but there's always rumors github is shaking
<lopex>
maybe the other companies are driving it :P
<enebo>
back when it was only a few guys they were profitable
<enebo>
I think they had a model which would have scaled…perhaps paranoia somethign like atlassian bitbucket would take over or something
<lopex>
enebo: bitbucket is more niche
<lopex>
enebo: and mey be more stable actually
<lopex>
*may
<enebo>
lopex: yeah I guess I don’t know a ton about bitbucket but I think it has a good overlap with github
<lopex>
enebo: atrassian!, i still GROWS
<lopex>
*it
<enebo>
lopex: atlassian has a large suite of tools to sell a business
<lopex>
in some way I admire them
<lopex>
how to monetize opensource
<enebo>
lopex: I am not sure if that makes sales easier or not
<lopex>
Atlassan
<enebo>
lopex: Jira not having bookmarkable shit is mind-blowing in 2017
<lopex>
even Oracle is not as good
<lopex>
haha
<lopex>
and still being in the lead
<enebo>
yeah
<enebo>
It is easy to disparage issue trackers though…I have come to realize it must be the hardest software in the world to me
<enebo>
make
<enebo>
Probably hard to make developers happy in general
<lopex>
yeah
<chrisseaton>
Worse is better
<lopex>
though redmine is being percieven as likable from what I hear
<enebo>
chrisseaton: heh yeah that is amazing how often that is true :)
<lopex>
chrisseaton: that the problem with this industry
<lopex>
imagine bulb screw-threads getting the way the sortware is
<lopex>
doh I like those comaprisons
<enebo>
so gitter on linked in claims to be 1-10 employess and privately held…that is cool. If they sell firewalled version (like enterprise github) and sell for commercial in the cloud stuff perhaps they have a good plan
<lopex>
but the team I work with redmine has very good reputation actually
<enebo>
lopex: I sort of wish our standard changed soon for lightbulbs since we need to screw into AC outlet to run DC leds
<lopex>
I'm not so found of gitlab though
<enebo>
lopex: but I understood your point
<lopex>
I guess I'll be trying some gitea and drone CI soon
<lopex>
and I guess it's o go now
<lopex>
enebo: haha
<lopex>
enebo: but imagine anything happened to to that thread
<lopex>
the earth goes dark mostly
<lopex>
enebo: but, I'll be creating new CI on my engine
<lopex>
enebo: since modeling ANYTHING is easier than on any rails thing
<enebo>
lopex: you are making your own CI?
<lopex>
enebo: yeah, remember docker video ?
<lopex>
and I'll still be using docker for that
<lopex>
the other option is nix and nixops
<lopex>
pure ephemeral containers
<lopex>
well, mutable container on lxc is always a bad idea anyways
<chrisseaton>
The image is just the starting point - you can keep profiling and compiling from there
<chrisseaton>
It's a fantastic piece of technology - you can run a Java program up to a certain point, freeze it, and that frozen point becomes a statically linked stand alone binary, and then you run it the Java program continues from that point, with all the objects you had before you froze still available
<chrisseaton>
And all your methods statically compiled but also available for JIT
<lopex>
also with sulong ?
<chrisseaton>
Yeah
<lopex>
wow
<chrisseaton>
That may not be part of any release we do very soon though
<lopex>
chrisseaton: just tell me, how bad that ruby c macros are
<lopex>
aka ruby API
<chrisseaton>
I usually just implement them as function calls
<lopex>
isnt that lol ?
<chrisseaton>
A few are l-values (left hand side values) so have to be macros
<lopex>
how does sulong sees them as ?
<chrisseaton>
I implement those as special memory locations that have callbacks when they're written to, like virtual memory
<lopex>
as functions ?
<lopex>
whatever ?
<lopex>
ah
<lopex>
chrisseaton: imagine c++ had macros with it's own semantics
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<lopex>
you'de be gone
<lopex>
anywys, cool
<lopex>
chrisseaton: I gather truffle-jruby is the most active playground for sulong now ?
<chrisseaton>
It's a focus yes
<chrisseaton>
It's TruffleRuby btw :)
<lopex>
chrisseaton: like doesnt R have any bindings ?
<lopex>
yeah
<chrisseaton>
R does, but they have a JNI version that works ok, and we don't
<lopex>
I remember
<lopex>
ah
<chrisseaton>
The same for JS
<lopex>
it's rocket science in engineering
<lopex>
yeah
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<lopex>
was about to ask bout that
<lopex>
well, if you can bridge on ruby you can on anything
<lopex>
#define value whatever_poiner << 1
<lopex>
doh
<lopex>
and that's api
<lopex>
:P
<lopex>
wow I didnt know rails is going so strong still